On January 3, 2026, US military forces removed Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro from power and charged him with drug trafficking crimes. The event brought renewed attention to the humanitarian crisis in Venezuela and the plight of displaced Venezuelans in the US and across the globe.
On this episode of Policy Outsider, Institute on Immigrant Integration Research and Policy Deputy Director & Intergovernmental Liaison Guillermo Martinez interviews two Venezuelan not-for-profit leaders about the crisis in Venezuela, how they support Venezuelans from their positions in the US and the UK, and their hopes for the country and its people.
Guests
Transcript was generated using AI software and may contain errors.
Joel Tirado 00:00
Welcome to Policy Outsider presented by the Rockefeller Institute of Government. I’m Joel Tirado. On January 3, 2026, US military forces removed Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro from power and charged him with drug trafficking crimes. The event brought renewed attention to the humanitarian crisis in Venezuela and the plight of displaced Venezuelans in the US and across the globe. On today’s episode of Policy Outsider, Institute on Immigrant Integration Research and Policy Deputy Director & Intergovernmental Liaison Guillermo Martinez interviews two Venezuelan not-for-profit leaders about the crisis in Venezuela, how they support Venezuelans from their positions in the US and the UK, and their hopes for the country and its people. Our guests are Jesús Aguais, founder of Aid for AIDS, based in New York, and Dr. Alejandro Arenas Pinto, a United Kingdom-based infectious disease physician and researcher, and a trustee of the nonprofit, Healing Venezuela. That conversation is up next.
Guillermo Martinez 01:20
Welcome to another edition of policy outsider today’s focus is on the humanitarian crisis in Venezuela that has displaced over 8 million people in the role the civil society has played in responding when institutions could not I’m joined today by two remarkable Venezuelan leaders who have built a life saving responses from different vantage points. Jesus aguas, founder of aid for AIDS based in New York, and Dr Alejandro arenas Pinto, an infectious disease physician and researcher whose work includes leadership in healing Venezuela in the United Kingdom. A little bit more on each of our guests. Jesús Aguais is an AIDS activist from Venezuela and the president and founder of aid for AIDS, the organization has grown to include not only the largest HIV medicine recycling program in the world, but also education, prevention training and advocacy programs that target people with HIV in developing countries. Dr Alejandro arenas Pinto is a Venezuelan physician with training in infectious diseases and Tropical Medicine, and is a member of the Board of Trustees of healing Venezuela in the United Kingdom. There. He completed his master’s in science at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine with distinction, and gained his PhD from the University College in London. He’s also the deputy director of UCL Center for Clinical Research and infectious and sexual health. Thank you both for joining us today. I want listeners to understand a little bit more about the work that each of you lead, and I’ll start with Jesus for someone hearing about aid for AIDS for the first time, what is your model and your mission, and how has it evolved?
Jesús Aguais 03:05
So hi, Guillermo, we we started a for age in the midst of the AIDS crisis and in the mid 90s, and a for age was a direct response of the community. I was working on an HIV clinic here in New York, at St Vincent hospital, the former St Vincent hospital, by the way. And that year, 1996 that’s when the protease inhibitors, the HIV combination therapy, came out with with the protease inhibitors in the market and but there was only HIV meds in in rich nations, right in the US and rich European countries, and the rest of the world was dying of AIDS. And, you know, there was a lot of surplus, because at that time, two HIV medicine the new protease inhibitors came out, there was two combination therapy, and there was a lot of surplus in the middle. And something happened, and we started collecting the surplus when people switch because of side effects at that time, and sending it to people through a rigorous process when people needed to have physicians in their native countries, and sending it a study, sending it to Venezuela, and that became the largest HIV medicine redistribution program from the US to lower middle income countries. And that’s what kind of led everything that we have done always responding to the need, from that initial idea of just sending HIV medicines to at that time. To support AIDS activism in in in the south, and we started welcoming immigrants to New York City. People from all over and especially from Latin America, were coming to New York City, moving to New York because they have, you know, HIV. They were HIV positive, and they needed treatment, and that in the late 90s, we opened the New York immigrant aids link. And since then, we were helping people to apply for asylum based on HIV status and sexual orientation that evolved, evolved to 2016 and where, with that connections that we created with the network of people with HIV, not only in in Venezuela, but worldwide, we started responding To the Venezuelan humanitarian emergency. So it’s been a long way and being weakness of what had happened, and in this particular case, in Venezuela, with Venezuela migrants, for almost 30 years now.
Guillermo Martinez 06:20
Okay, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Alejandro similar question, what is, what is healing Venezuela’s mission in its approach? And what are you? What’s the organization currently doing on the ground? Yeah, we are
Alejandro Arenas Pinto 06:36
significantly younger organizations compared to eight for eight. We are an organization that started to put volunteers together about 2014 and that was at the time when the Venezuelan humanitarian crisis kind of picked in terms of the impact on public health and their well being of Venezuelan citizens. So we there was our founder since started a movement in a similar way of what Jesus described before, just collecting donations from leftovers of medicines and other supplies and trying to make this materials, finding a way to Venezuela, but then with in a matter of few months, we understood that that was a very inefficient way of working and very unlikely to have a significant impact, so we created the NGO the charity in and regular and registered the regulatory body here in the UK in 2016 and from them, we have been working specifically in projects that are done or designed and executed in partnership with institutions, organizations or NGOs in Venezuela. So we don’t try to engineering support from the distance, but we are supporting groups and organizations to our in the field, actually delivering different programs, and our main aim has always been supporting their work and working in projects that are likely to have significant impact regardless of the size of the population served, for example, we have worked with small charities that have been supporting children with insulin dependent diabetes, and they are at that time in 2016 2017 they couldn’t have access to devices to measure blood glucose, blood sugar, and without that, it was impossible to provide them with the care they needed. So there was a relatively small charity, but the impact on the life and quality of life of these children was massive, and that was the kind of activities that we were engaging in at the time, and then from there, we have been growing slightly and getting involved in different projects. But the principle is that we work with partners in Venezuela that are able to deliver high quality and high impact interventions.
Guillermo Martinez 09:26
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that definitely life saving work that you both do. I want to go a little bit personal, because the personal story office explains why people get involved in public service and you’re both immigrants in Venezuela whose work has had tremendous impact on the lives of New Yorkers and people abroad in the United Kingdom and throughout Latin America. Starting with Alejandro, you tell us why you left Venezuela and your continued connections to the country, other than through this war. All nonprofit sector work. Yeah, I
Alejandro Arenas Pinto 10:04
as many, as many Venezuelan people from my generation, I left the country for, you know, looking for training opportunities, and that was what I got here in the UK. And professionally, it has been a great opportunity in many, in many ways. But then the links with with your own country, your own people, is something that is impossible to break. And once you are an immigrant, you’re an immigrant the rest of your life. So the link with the need and the feeling and the existence of your own people remains as a major priority in your life. Personally, I think, I think that’s the kind of the most important reason to keep in touch.
Guillermo Martinez 10:52
Definitely, I share that sentiment being an immigrant myself, Jesus, in your perspective on this,
Jesús Aguais 11:02
yeah, I came to New York quite young, my early 20s, back in late 90s, and since I came, I came actually to visit A friend, and I was in the university in Caracas. I’m visiting a friend who invited me to an act up meeting. Act up is the AIDS activist organization that, in my perspective, change the path of AIDS, and that’s the reason why we can say today that somebody with HIV undetectable doesn’t pass it on. I mean, it goes back to AIDS activism, and coming from Caracas with a totally different perspective, and being in a room full of AIDS activists, it changed my way of seeing lives, and so I never went back. I stayed I ended up University here in New York City, but more importantly, I was very conscious of my role as Venezuelan now in this new city that adopted me and and that connection never left. If anything is it has grown so much and to the place that I’m now. You know, I’m a Venezuelan New Yorker, and my life experience is allowing me to be a voice to those without voice. And it’s, it’s an incredible, an incredible feeling. And I came for different reasons at the same time, I’ve been in every part of the history of modern history of Venezuela, especially since Chavez came into power, and seeing the diaspora growing and welcoming events since day one, and that’s what we continue to do. And I’ve been able to actually have now two organizations because a phrase mission expanded and it became a new organization, independent organization called a for life, and so that everything my life and the work I do is totally interconnected.
Guillermo Martinez 13:27
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that the Exodus, the forced Exodus, of almost 8 million men, as well as has been heartbreaking and tragic for many as they’ve been displaced from their homes, and I just wonder, from each of you, what keeps you motivated? The crisis seems long, it seems never ending, and the need for help is immense. Alejandro, what keeps you kind of focused and being support system relevant as well as Yeah,
Alejandro Arenas Pinto 13:59
I think for me personally, there are two different sources of motivation if you want the first one is purely academic, and is certainly the less relevant of both. But when you look at the potential that the country has and indicators that we are able to see in terms of the states of the health care system in the country, and the indicators of the well being and health of our population, really makes very clear that there is a lot of work to do, as You said, and there is very little space to to wait for that to happen on this on but the most important motivation for me personally is that we have fantastic colleagues, and there are fantastic organizations that are actually working every day in Venezuela to. Carry on and to deliver the best possible help that they can for fellow citizens around the country, those who are in academia in Venezuela, of all of all of those colleagues that are in the healthcare system or in different levels in different regions, they are, day after day, delivering the best they can to support people in very difficult and challenging situations for many reasons, from political, financials, economics, any major reasons that you can imagine, and they’re still doing that day after day. So if they are and they can, we cannot stop. I think that’s my that’s my mentality. So as far as we have people in Venezuela that are actually doing the job every day and trying as hard as they can to get the country in a better position we cannot stop.
Guillermo Martinez 15:51
Thank you and Sue’s the same, same question, what keeps you committed? What keeps the motivation going, knowing that the problem seems sometimes without a solution?
Jesús Aguais 16:02
Well, for me, has different dimensions. And you know, as I said before, I come from AIDS activism and and they, that was the first lesson learned. And people who are impacted, and they grow, get organized, they made changes. And then from being a minority, minority in New York, when I came to New York, people didn’t even know where Venezuela was. A lot of people when I said that I was from Venezuela, they thought that I was from someplace in Europe. They have no idea. So I represented a community that I think grow, and that dimension is in the importance of having a voice from outside for those that are coming so from welcoming those with HIV coming from Venezuela back in The 90s and 2000 and welcoming
Guillermo Martinez 17:00
what is about
Jesús Aguais 17:02
80,000 Venezuelans who came to New York City in the past four years, a lot less than four years. And it was clear to me that is important that they, they they feel represented. At the same time, we’ve been able to monitor the changes of of the crisis, because the crisis is always different. The crisis in 2016 and this is 2017 that’s that’s actually when here in Venezuela, in London, and a phrase we we actually got to work together. And it’s because we identify an issue and we were able to get partners is be able to understand the crisis, and that’s very, very important. And as Alejandro says, understanding that these very smart and capable people in Venezuela that needs our support from outside, but because the crisis is so complex, we and I decided that I need to have different dimensions and to be able to measure the impact. So that’s what we can do in Venezuela, supporting people in Venezuela, but also supporting those that decided, who has been forced, by the way, has been forced, to leave the country, and they looking for for a place to have a new life. Yeah.
Guillermo Martinez 18:32
Thank you. You both described kind of moments where you both realized that institutions, the civil society, you had to take action because it was a moment where additional action needed to be taken from traditional organizations. Thank you for sharing that one touch on a section of this interview that deals with all the displacement and the trauma and the urgency that the situation entails, and you have both seen this from the front lines, even though you’re working across oceans with impacted populations and, of course, the refugees who are coming into your area. But Alejandro has how has living with the dysphoria shaped you personally and professionally? And what is it? What has it taught you about what Venezuelans need most when they are displaced.
Alejandro Arenas Pinto 19:25
That’s a very interesting point, particularly in the contrast with the experience that Jesus is describing. Because in the UK, we Venezuelans are a very small minority. We I can give you an example because I was looking into the figures the other day, registered doctors with license to practice medicine that have been trained in Venezuela in at the moment, in the UK, we are less than 100 and to put it in perspective, is about half a million doctors register in the UK. So. Are less than 100 and so that that gives you just an example of I have no idea how many Venezuelan doctors are working in the US, but just from personal connections, I think we can call both 100 easily. So Venezuela is, is is not a group of people that is well represented in the diaspora, that lives in the in the UK, we are more familiar people in Europe. Are more familiar with Venezuelan migrants if they are in Spain or Portugal or or Italy, but definitely not, not in the UK. Of interest, it is very, very difficult to explain the severity, the complexity and the real impact of the Venezuelan crisis to an audience that is more for many reasons, more motivated to understand and to and to get involved in crisis that are developing in other parts of the world that are more familiar to them. So one of the our big challenges in the UK has always been explaining what is going on in Venezuela, why Venezuelan matter, why the crisis in Venezuela is important, and why? What’s the difference between the Venezuelan health crisis and what it can be happening in other regions where the humanitarian emergency is associated with other events like war or natural disasters, in our case, is not the case is that this is a man made process that has been developing over many years. So if you see what is happening in the healthcare system in Venezuela, is not an acute event that fractured the system in a kind of cataclysmic way, has been a progressive deterioration of the situation that has led to the position where we are now. So selling that idea to people is not an easy task. However, we have been able to grow over the years because people in the UK are quite sensitive to a number of key indicators of human rights, and when human rights are affected, people here tend to react to that and health, access to health is a fundamental human right, and I think that’s the reason why people here are supporting us and supporting the cost in Venezuela, but it’s a massive challenge compared to what can be done or seen in other parts of the world, like in the US or other parts in Europe.
Guillermo Martinez 22:52
And thank you for sharing that, and for Jesus, you mentioned the recent arrivals. 80,000 plus Venezuela is arriving in New York City, daily headlines or buzzes, bringing in 5000 people a day, overwhelming some of the the resources that the city had. How do you how do you see the headlines aren’t as prominent anymore, but, but some of the problems still persist have. How do you see the situation shaping up for Venezuela is looking for asylum and who have arrived in New York?
Jesús Aguais 23:30
The number that came to New York since 2022 it was around 135,200 40,000 40,000 that came through our programs because we organized since day one of the massive wave of migration that I started arriving in New York City, when Governor Abbott, from Texas started bussing people to New York, and we used to see 1000 people or more a week. So 80,000 is that the one that came through our programs, especially the humanitarian aid program, through our salaries. Jornadas is which is a full day event, but the in the shelter system in New York City is almost 140,000 so Venezuelans became which is true all over. But you know, we in New York love to compare with what happened in the past and look at history. We became the largest migration of a nationality in New York City in a short period of time, in over 120 years. And the difference is that at this time, these people came forth to New York City, and most of them were in the charter system. Right now we calculate. Another piece of information that I think is important. Back in early 22 we were 15,001 515, 1000 Venezuela New Yorkers. And then means that when 130 almost 140 arrived. There were no host community, right? And that 140 represented almost 55% of of the overall migration, new migration in New York City since 2022 also Venezuelans. Are, you know, orphans. They the United States don’t have diplomatic relationship with with a Venezuela that means that a Venezuelan migrant who wants to go back as any other migrant that their countries has relationship with the United States, which the only thing they need to do is to go to the General Council, get a passport and go back Venezuela’s a trap in in the United States, and under the Biden administration, and Venezuelans got TPS the temporary protection status over 600,000 of them that since the new administration in 2024, those same 600,000 lost legal status. So it’s very challenging, although in New York City, the vast majority of the newly arrived and understand newly arrived thoughts that came in the past four years. Most of them came walking from South America, crossed the Darien Gap, got to the south border of the United States, and they were bused to New York City. And most of them applied for asylum. Some of them has asylum plus TPS, but the level of persecution that is being in place by this new administration towards immigrants and using the Venezuela national nationality as at the worst of migrants has has really impact in our community, and despite all those challenges, we are committed, committed on building community and helping people on their integration process.
Guillermo Martinez 27:41
Thank you for sharing that. Thank you, Alejandro, that kind of a similar situation, not similar situation, but in the UK, the only headlines we see here were like the former Prime Minister would have campaigned to stop the boats and things like that. But how receptive has the UK been to the refugee crisis,
Alejandro Arenas Pinto 28:03
yeah, in terms of Venezuela, as I said, Venezuela is not a major contributor to the migration to the UK. The in the UK, most of people coming through different ways are from Africa, on the Middle East and North Africa, Middle East and other regions of the world is very little migration from South America, from Latin America, and particularly from Venezuela. Most people from Venezuela are in other parts, Southern Europe, however, the there is a political issue in terms of migration and and there is not necessarily based on human rights, as you can see from some of the political views that have been expressed in different regions and different countries, and that doesn’t it’s not different in the UK. So there are some political groups that are definitely opposed to migration as a principle, and there are others that are completely and completely different position to that is that debate in Europe is an ongoing issue, and in the UK is particularly relevant, but not directly targeting Venezuelans, because we are a very tiny minority here.
Guillermo Martinez 29:41
I want to touch a little bit on the ecosystem where you both operate civil society responses don’t run on passion alone. They need partners and resources. And I wanted to ask, what level of support, increasing, decreasing? Are you seeing your efforts? And with Jesus, I’ll start with Jesus. You know, the situation in New York was unique compared to what happened the last four years in terms of other cities in the United States. What level of support and did you find from the other nonprofit community, for the rest of the nonprofit community, and from government? And was there anything that was missing in that response?
Jesús Aguais 30:24
Let me add to what Alejandro is saying, and I can add also the level of support. But it’s important to understand the Venezuelan migrants, forced migration, especially in the past 10 years. And you know, Venezuela in 2016 was in a deep humanitarian emergency that it was called by the United Nation, Venezuela humanitarian emergency because of the nature of the situation, and a big health system collapsed and the economic system collapsed, and that was pre United States sanctions to the United States. The United States sanctions to Venezuela and civil society were we were there, and at that point, there was 70,000 Venezuelans with HIV without treatment. And this is when we got together as a global activist and were able to secure treatment. That in 2018 we supported 35,000 Venezuelans with HIV, because we were able to get donation from pharmaceutical companies and but the same time, in 2019 we Venezuelan literally started walking out of the country, and the phenomenon called Los caminantes the workers and the Workers became part, I mean, part of of of the the system in Latin America. Colombia alone, got 3 million Venezuela migrants. And los caminantes Were walking the longest distance of any forced migration. They were walking from Lily from Caracas, or from any town in Venezuela to Santiago, Chile and but people in the North didn’t care, because it wasn’t happening here. The International Cooperation agencies establish a whole system in Venezuela, in Latin America, in Colombia, our organization started supporting immigrants. We were feeding in Cucuta alone, 1000 immigrants a day that does that cross the border, whether legally or illegally. For many years, that border was actually closed and the legal path, so people were coming from the illegal path. And at that point in the United States, no one’s talk about that. And the same taminant is the same people that walk from Venezuela to Chile in 2022 decided to walk north. The unthinkable happened. I mean, they started crossing the jungle. That device Colombia and Panama is called the Darien Gap, and that was one of the most dangerous, if it’s not the most dangerous path for any any migration. And they walk not only that jungle, but they walk Central America and Mexico, and when I learned more about it, they described crossing Mexico worse than crossing the jungle. So Venezuelans has gone through
Guillermo Martinez 33:53
the most horrific
Jesús Aguais 33:56
experiences just to try to have a new life. So when they started arriving in New York, very people knew about the the the Venezuelans, because we were not enough here, and that started the challenges of getting funding right. And the first thing that that we did as an organization is is working closely with the mayor’s office and advocating for funding as the migration was so large, they needed tailor services. We needed to understand the level of trauma that they went through. They said, Trump a very traumatic forced migration to trying to get a new life in a new place where people don’t understand them. So funding has been it’s been a challenge. We’ve been able to to secure some funding, secure some funding to develop legal. Out services tailored to Venezuelans. I always said we don’t have to reinvent the wheel, but we can tailor the wheel that fits the services that we’re providing, and that’s exactly what we’ve been doing so being vocal, being out there, speaking about the needs of those will newly arrived in the city, and has been key to the success of the program. And a lot needs to be done, by the way. I mean, this is far from over as all the things that are happening now, but funding is always an issue. There’s always a way to get it, but we have to fight, fight very hard to get it.
Guillermo Martinez 35:46
Thank you for sharing that. And I suppose that to a small degree, philanthropy is assisting healing Venezuela and reading the information on your website, medical equipment that’s donated and so forth. Is that level of support still there? Is it growing? Is it hard to come by? Yeah, I
Alejandro Arenas Pinto 36:08
just wanted to before I address that point, I wanted to mention something to complement what Jesus said, and I think the people living with chronic conditions in Venezuela during the last 15 years or so, all have been seriously affected by this emergency, humanitarian emergency, sustained emergency. But it’s not just people living with HIV, and that’s something that is closer to what Jesus does and what I do professionally, but, but there are other markers as well. So for example, you can see how the even the basic health care system programs in systems have been seriously affected. So I just wanted to give you a couple of examples, because I think people can relate to those. So one of them is maternal mortality. So Internet of care is a kind of a fundamental program in every single healthcare system that you can imagine from from Sub Saharan African region to the Southeast Asia and Latin America and everywhere in the world, but maternal mortality, which is the number of women to die during pregnancy, deliver or immediately after in Venezuela increase in almost 200% from 20 the year 2000 to 2020, and in 2020 the rate in Venezuela was almost 260 deaths per 100 life, birth and that was to compare to the region. So you can say that in the same year, in 2020 in Colombia, it was 75 and in Ecuador, was 66 so well, order of magnitude above what our neighbors were having. And that shows you how severely affected the healthcare system is, or was in Venezuela at the time. But the other element which is important and talking about programs that are saving lives is vaccination programs. And in that era of 2016 2016 to 2019 this when we started seeing outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases in Venezuela, and it was not until the cases were starting to cross in the border, in the same process that Jesus was explaining. Because when people migrate, people migrate with all they bring with, and that includes infections, if that is the case. So in for example, just to give you an example, in 2019 in Brazil, they had reported less than 100 cases of missiles in the year 2018 but in 2019 they reported about 10,000 cases, and 10,000 cases that they were compatible with the type of virus that was circulating in Venezuela at the time, so there are reasons to believe that all these cases were imported from Venezuela, and that is what is a massive problem for the region, but also for the people migrating that are migrating with all the challenges, including health challenges, that they’re bringing with them. But also shows you what the problem in Venezuela is so specifically on the programs that hill in Venezuela has been working with. As I said at the beginning, we try to work with local organizations that are able to deliver. So yes, we are supporting hospitals and healthcare facilities in Venezuela. And it is interesting because when I, when I started thinking on what would be needed, we started supporting the requests for equipment like imaging diagnostic aids, like, you know, ultrasound equipment. Or X ray machines or MRI equipment. But in fact, what has been more significant in terms of the impact, has been helping the hospitals to get access to safe and rely reliant system of water. So it is not a secret that in Venezuela, water is is. Access to water is limited. A lot of people and a lot of institutions are not able to receive water in a reliable way, and the quality of the water is not necessarily up to good for human consumption, and a number of big hospitals were facing that big problem, so we have been supporting them with reliable access to safe water and systems since 2018 because it’s very basic need, but it was not covered, and that’s something that we’ve been trying to do. So we have been supporting hospitals in many ways, but at the same time, the other things we’re doing is trying to support institutions that can actually multiply the effect and the benefits. So for example, one of the two big programs that we are delivering at the moment, the first one is the scholarships for President doctors, or junior doctors, which has been quite successful, I think, basically what it is about is in Venezuela and in many other countries that I am aware of, the resident doctors are the heart beating of any healthcare institution. So the hospitals rely on the resident doctors for many of the activities and patients care that they deliver. And because of that, we need to support them to make sure that our population have access to healthcare. So it is difficult to assume that someone can survive with a salary, which is an average about 60 to $70 per month and this is the reason why many doctors are leaving the country. Many doctors are not opting for training, postgraduate training in the hospitals, just because the income is not enough. So our program of scholarships have helped about 370 doctors to complete their training, or to go through their training to become a specialist, and I think that is benefiting not only them, but also significant proportion of our population that have access only to the public health system in Venezuela, and then trying to move on more technological support in partnership with the University of New York and some very incredibly committed doctors like they’re working in Venezuela, we’ve managed to get involved with This program of portable ultrasound equipment that has been helping doctors in Venezuela to diagnose and manage patients in a more efficient way with a relatively point of care technology. So that program itself has been able to grow to be supported, not only for the University of Central Venezuela, Faculty of Medicine, but also is now being embraced by the ferocio Mexico of Venezuela. So it’s going to be incorporated into the formal training of people doing internal basing specialist training in Venezuela. And we are convinced that this is a way of supporting not only the medical community in Venezuela, but more importantly, to allow our population, our patients, to actually get better care and more opportune care everywhere they are. So I think this is the kind of work that we’re doing, and we’re trying to continue doing for the people who are in Venezuela?
Guillermo Martinez 44:02
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Also you It definitely gives the listener a lived reality of what’s going on other than the headlines, of how many headlines actually never touch on some of the issues that you just mentioned, the strain it puts on the countries have been taking and some of the refugees in Venezuela, the infectious disease issues, the maternal mortality rate increases, real life and death issues like they were discussing, I want to look ahead a little bit and and and ask you both to look ahead into your crystal balls right now. And ask you both, as Bill as well as Venezuela, into this new chapter after the US military action early, early in January, to remove like last Maduro. What are you What do you think comes next? What are your hopes? How soon do you think any of that of your hopes will materialize? I’ll start with this with issues.
Jesús Aguais 45:01
A Yeah, that’s a great question, and adding a little more with what Alejandro was saying, and it’s important to to add to the context that when entire health system is is destroyed, as happened in Venezuela, the role of civil society was key to save people, many, many people died and because of basic health care needs, and organizations like here in Venezuela for AIDS, which is just a small part of it, but there’s many civil society organizations that were able To save some life, those that were that were able to leave Venezuela to search for support and health outside Venezuela. But many, many 1000s of people have died in the past, in the past 10 years, due to the lack of health system. And give you an example, malaria, which, ironically enough, Venezuela was the first country to eradicate malaria in 1961 by 2018 Venezuela was leading in malaria cases. And so when we see what’s happening now on, Maduro is here in New York, and he was removed from power, as he has a bounty of $50 million as he was convicted as a Drug trafficking and leading the carte de los soles. But a it’s important to understand that the Venezuela regime, or the Maduro regime, is still in place in Venezuela, with the people that is running it right, and we have the Vice President of Venezuela. They’ll see Rodriguez, who is dealing with the United States. But we also have, you know, the ozau cabello, the Minister of Interior. We have Padre no Lopez, the Minister of Defense who controls all the Venezuelan army. And for me, what was very clear after the removal of Maduro is how strong the dictatorship operates and controls the entire country. You know, all states governors that are part of the regime. We have a new national assembly that is actually led by del C Rodriguez, brother Jorge Rodriguez, and all the the shift of the narrative from Venezuela being gang members and and the drops coming from Venezuela to the United States, to becoming all about oil. Now the United States is going to control Venezuela oil, which is is another discussion, but the fact that it’s all about oil and there’s no talk about human rights, there’s no talk about democracy, is something that I’m very cautious and seeing what’s next, and I don’t think nobody knows, or despite all the conversations and all the opinions that you can see and even even the events that had happened as the leader of the opposition giving a symbolic her Nobel Peace Prize medal to Donald Trump, and what that means, and be able to
Guillermo Martinez 49:08
use that
Jesús Aguais 49:11
incident or that situation to be able to be in front of him, the most powerful man on Earth right now, which is Donald Trump, and what I think it is is is an invitation to to be cautious and to look closely of what could happen. And as despite everything that the United States is doing, I would also tell people, do not underestimate even the Venezuelan regime, and in this case, the Maduro regime, without Maduro as they are experts of kicking the can and. Gaining time, and so there’s a lot of uncertainty.
Guillermo Martinez 50:06
There’s a lot of work to do
Jesús Aguais 50:09
to protect those in Venezuela and those outside Venezuela.
Guillermo Martinez 50:16
Yeah, thank you for sharing those perspectives. For sure, institutions of oppression in Venezuela have not been dismantled, and not enough discussion, I think, in the States, on that issue. And like you mentioned, the focus has been major media, mostly on the oil, the oil and more oil. And so Alejandro, the same thing, what are your hopes in terms of what comes next and what will convince you that real progress is taking shape? Yeah, I
Alejandro Arenas Pinto 50:52
think it is. I have to agree with Susan, in terms of the uncertainty. Uncertainty is the trademark of all this business. We don’t know what was going to happen. What worries me the most is that priority list seems to be squid. So hard to another area, far from health, human rights and education and and that’s a big problem, because I someone asked me, after the events of the of the third of January and removal of Maduro from power, someone asked me why People in Venezuela didn’t react and didn’t go out to support or against the situation. And I said, but actually, I think you are missing from informed because I think people went out as soon as they could. But they went went out to queue, to queue, to line to get access to grocery stores, to pharmacies, to petrol station or gas stations, because people in Venezuela are they’re well trained on what is going to happen every time that there are political a major political event, and it is the situation in the daily life is going to get worse. And I don’t think there is any evidence that this time is going to be different. There is no evidence that has been any discussion or any interest in taking into consideration the humanitarian crisis. No, I haven’t seen any evidence of discussions on how to tackle the health crisis or the education crisis, of the problems in access to healthy nutrition that people are lacking of so my main concern is that all the efforts from the government in Venezuela will be put on survival mode, and survival mode for them is something completely different to what survival means for normal citizens in the country. Therefore, I believe that the role of social civil society and organizations in and out of the country that are committed to improving the situation the humanitarian crisis in Venezuela are from far from over. Are now entering a new era, in which seems to be a change in the approach from from the authorities, because I knew actors involved in the process, but it doesn’t seem to be taking into consideration the actual existential needs of our population, and I’m really worried about that.
Guillermo Martinez 53:53
Well, thank you for sharing that you you both represent small organizations in the scope of everything else on the planet, but you’re in the middle of some huge issues with many tangibles, and they’re all impact people’s health and their lives, and really appreciative of you spending your time and sharing your knowledge and your perspectives on what’s been going on. One last question, is there anything else you would like to share with our audience.
Jesús Aguais 54:23
Well, I do, I do want to share, especially if this, if the audience is here in the United States, I think it’s important that we, all US citizens, call our legislators to demand protections to Venezuelans in New York in the United States, I’m sorry, and to restore the temporary protection status to over 600,000 Venezuelans in the United States. The fact that while this is happening, and the uncertainty and we getting into this new. The era of unknown in Venezuela, while the Maduro regime, without Maduro still in power in Venezuela, the Venezuelans are deported to Venezuela. It is sending people to a death sentence. We must speak up, get to know Venezuelans. There’s a movement here called Hands of Venezuela asking for the return of Maduro to Venezuela, and that’s very worrisome. Speak to a Venezuelan. Learn about what happened in Venezuela. Understand why we are happy that Maduro is in prison at the same time. We don’t want occupation from the US to Venezuela. We don’t want the US to run Venezuela. But while all this happening, Venezuelans in the United States needs protection. Call your legislators. Legislator demand to put pressure to Homeland Security to restore TPS to Venezuelans.
Alejandro Arenas Pinto 56:11
I just wanted to add to that this, I think the overarching topic and that plea that Jesus was making there is related to the immediate existential needs of our fellow Venezuelan citizens outside of the country, but also inside of the country. So it is quite important to understand that there is no way that civil society or volunteers can take the responsibility of a state we cannot take on the responsibilities of ensuring well being and health and the life of our Venezuelan citizens in or out the country. However, we have a moral responsibility to contribute the most we can and to help in the best possible way, and that is for both our fellow Venezuelan citizens in the in the country, in Venezuela, but also outside and in terms of what is happening inside the country. It is important for every single person that feels that this is an existential threat to Venezuelan people in the country, to trying to learn to listen and to read about what is happening in Venezuela and why the country reached that point where we are. And because of that, the solution to the problem has to take into consideration the Venezuelans, because there is no way, and I like a say or a slogan that people living with HIV have used for many, many years, which is nothing about us without us. And I think this apply here as well. So there is no way there can be a solution for Venezuelans without the Venezuelans.
Guillermo Martinez 57:58
Before we close, I just want to say thank you again, because what you both do is not abstract. It is work that saves lives and protects dignity. Jesus, you saw a gap that shouldn’t exist, life saving medication going to waste while people elsewhere had no access. And you build aid for AIDS into a practical global model of solidarity that continues to meet urgent needs, including for immigrants and refugees in New York. Aleja, thank you for pairing clinical leadership with civil society leadership while serving in the United Kingdom’s health and research community. You have helped lead healing Venezuela’s work in the United Kingdom and internationally to deliver high impact medical support for Venezuelans affected by this humanitarian crisis. To both of you. Thank you again for the lives you’ve helped save, the organizations you’ve built in the example you’ve set of what humanitarian leadership should look like. Thank you.
Joel Tirado 59:02
Thanks again to Jesús Aguais and Dr. Alejandro Arenas Pinto for joining Guillermo Martinez for a discussion of the humanitarian crisis in Venezuela and the work being done to support Venezuelans. Thanks also to Rockefeller Institute Director of Labor Policy Maria Figueroa for her assistance with this episode. If you liked this episode, please rate, subscribe, and share. It will help others find the podcast and help us deliver the latest in public policy research. All of our episodes are available for free wherever you stream your podcasts and transcripts are available on our website. I’m Joel Tirado; until next time.
Joel Tirado 59:42
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