The Elder Economic Security Index is a tool that quantifies how much income older Americans need to meet their basic needs and age in place with dignity. On this episode of Policy Outsider, we unpack how the index works, what the latest findings tell us about economic security in later life, and how policymakers, advocates, and communities can use the index to shape better policy and programs.
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Joel Tirado 00:00
Hi. Welcome to policy outsider presented by the Rockefeller Institute of Government. I’m Joel tirado. The elder Economic Security Index is a tool that quantifies how much income older Americans need to meet their basic needs and age in place with dignity. On this episode of policy outsider, we unpack how the index works, what the latest findings tell us about economic security in later life, and how policymakers, advocates and communities can use the index to shape better policy and progress. Our guests are Maria Alvarez, the executive director of the New York State, statewide senior Action Council. Nydia Velasco Roldan, a postdoctoral fellow with the Gerontology Institute at the University of Massachusetts in Boston. And Dina refke, executive director of the Institute on immigrant integration research and policy. That conversation is up next you
Dina Refki 01:16
we’re speaking today with the team behind the elder economic security index. The index calculates at county, state and national levels and adjusted for household composition, health status, housing tenure and local cost structure, and provides insights into gaps between fixed incomes and real living costs. Welcome Maria and Nadia. Wonderful to have you here.
Nidya Velasco Roldán 01:46
Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. So our first question
Dina Refki 01:50
to you is, what prompted you to develop the elder index?
Nidya Velasco Roldán 01:55
Well, I wish I could say I’m the mastermind behind the elder index. But I am not the elder index as we know it now was posted for the first time in 2011 but even before that, it had years on the making, all day, creation, conceptualization, all of that. I joined a team producing the elder index in 2017 so many years after it was created. But what I could say is that the idea of creating a measure that will capture the effects of age, living arrangements and place of residence on financial security, now know as the elder index, was created by a group of researchers at the Gerontology Institute, which is part of the University of Massachusetts, Boston. What they wanted was to create a realistic measure of income adequacy. They wanted this measure to reflect the local and regional variation on the basic needs of people. So how much money do I need to cover my basic needs varies depending on where I live, what age I have, and also if I share the household with another older adult, or if I live alone. So they wanted to capture these realistic things into a measure of income adequacy.
Dina Refki 03:28
Thank you. Nadia, so Maria, Did you experience any gaps? Or you know knowledge gaps are the need for this information before the index started, were reducing anecdotal evidence that there is a need for this index, this measurement tool, because you felt that the older adults were not having enough economic security.
Maria Alvarez 04:00
Well, first of all, New York statewide senior Action Council has used the index to to not to nitya’s point since 2009 so we were, we were one of the first organizations and in the state of New York and and states in New York to to partner with with the gerontological Institute of Massachusetts, because to to promote the elder Security Index. Our organization is largely a grassroots advocacy organization that which mission is to improve the quality of life of seniors and families in New York State. And what we found was that there are all of these programs, but. Us without, without, without adequate funding and adequate resources and income in the community, it was going to become impossible for an older adult to not only to age and live, but to thrive in the community that they lived in, to age in place, right? People want to stay home in their communities. So by by utilizing this index, we use it as a tool to to describe exactly what is needed for somebody to be able to stay in their home. So many times we and the good part about it is that it’s by it’s by county. It’s county by county, so it personalizes the information down to a local area that then we can use and show to all sorts of people. We could show it to elected officials. We could show it to to policymakers, to program developers, in order to because our main thing is saying, if we, if you, cut a certain program, let’s say right now and in, in the news, the SNAP program for nutrition, we can show the average amount that a person needs to for for their food. And if we say, if you cut this, people are going to be hungry, and all of the effects that that follow, you know, if you don’t eat properly, from health care to housing to everything else. So then we’ll say the importance of the program is that, not only that you have, you know, you have all of these people who are food insecure, but it’s also in your county, and how many people, and so it sort of puts it crystallizes it for people, and it makes it a lot more more personal when we do our advocacy to making sure that people are are well provided for, to be able to to age in place.
Dina Refki 07:14
Certainly a very powerful approach, and terrific example of how research can can really advance advocacy and meet the needs of vulnerable populations. Let’s talk a little bit about the methodology and the research design, the data sources, the analysis that you have taken, the approaches if you have taken in analyzing your data. Yeah,
Nidya Velasco Roldán 07:40
so here is where I have a lot of knowledge, because this is what I do. I pretty much estimate the other index. So let’s start by mentioning that we do not estimate the index at the national level, and then bring it down at the county level. We do the opposite. We find data sources that keep us information at the county level, and then we retrieve all the information by have like we estimate housing cost, health costs, transportation costs, put costs at the county level when possible, and then we use the population estimates to average those costs by county and estimate the state level, metropolitan area and the national level. So we don’t go from national to counties, but the opposite, we estimate counties and then go to the national level.
Dina Refki 08:39
I would assume that you are using ACS data, the American Community Survey data, or are there any other sources of data you’re using?
Nidya Velasco Roldán 08:47
Oh, yeah, we use a bunch of sources for the data estimation. So we use American Community Survey information for the population estimates and also for homeowner housing costs. And we use, for example, fair market rent cost for the rental cost of housing rent housing rent costs. We use the National Housing. National Housing transportation survey for the transportation costs we use the agricultural I don’t remember the name of the of this, the US ad information for the food cost and for health cost, we use Medicare information, but we use different parts of the Medicare, like compilation of data. We use Original Medicare, which is part B, so that that’s the same cost for everyone in. The US, and then we add supplemental health insurance costs, which could be medical advantage or Medigap, and those we retrieve from the Medicare Compare website. So we need to plug in zip codes for each county, and then they give us the value. And then we add that to each county, and then we also add out of pocket costs. So previously, we will retrieve the out of pocket costs from Medicare compare as well, because they would provide that information, but they don’t provide out of pocket costs anymore. So now we are shifting this year, we are shifting the methodology, and we are estimating out of pocket costs from a Medicare survey. And now we’re previously we had it at the county level, but now we will have it at the metro area and regional level. So as you see, like even within each component, we have different sources of information to build that cost, and then once we have estimated each cost each section, then we put everything together.
Dina Refki 11:13
Awesome so and and the findings are incredibly interesting and striking. So there are two examples here from the report that says that a single elderly resident living in New York City with chronic health conditions, the elder index indicates monthly cost of living to be 4068 or almost 49,000 per year, with slightly over half that expense being consumed by rent, and a single elderly resident living in Erie County with chronic health conditions, an estimate of a monthly cost of living to be 2590 or 31,000, per year, with almost a third of their expense consumed By rent and almost a third by healthcare costs, so there isn’t much left. Would like us to talk like you, to talk more about your findings, your interpretations of the findings. What were the most striking findings that you unveiled with this analysis from the most recent
12:19
version of your report?
Nidya Velasco Roldán 12:21
What strikes me the most every time we produce these reports for the other index is like you mentioned, the difference in how the how the income is distributed within these different areas, for housing, for food, for transportation, and how this distribution varies by locality, like it’s not the same in one county than in the other. The other thing that strikes me also a lot every time, is that we produce something that is called income, like people who is in the gap. So people who is in the gap is people who has incomes above the federal poverty line, but below what we estimate for the elder index. So these people are particularly vulnerable because they cannot access all the programs, services and supports created for people in poverty. So people who have incomes below the poverty line, they cannot access those but they don’t have enough to cover the basic needs, which are determined by the elder index. So finding the the amount of people who are in this pocket that don’t have enough to cover basic needs, but also don’t have, like less enough to access these programs. Is what like. It’s always very interesting for me.
Dina Refki 13:53
Maria, you want to add anything? Are there any trends that you’re seeing?
Maria Alvarez 14:00
Yes, I would like to add something to the findings. So so one of the great things about this report, and another reason why we we utilize it, is because this report basically it, it shows an average cost of living for and it goes into much more detail of what it costs for a senior, whether you are single or a couple, whether you’re in good health, fair health or excellent health or poor health, and whether you’re a renter, a homeowner or a homeowner with a mortgage. And then when you read those tables, you’ll see not only the difference between, you know, from county to county, but even living in the same county, how much the difference is for people to live in in these counties, what the needs are about Manhattan. About New York. I will New York County, which, you know, you referenced before. I do want to, I always get this from, from the audiences when I speak, when you look at Manhattan has such a big discrepancy. You know, people can be very poor to very, very, very wealthy people, and it could be from block to block, you know? And so I always remind people that these are averages that we’re looking at. This is not, you know, it may not. It may you may be paying a lot more or a lot less than what our averages say of what our figures say, but it’s because it’s an average and it’s just so it’s a way, it’s a parting way of then constructing a message of affordability so that people can get an idea of what is needed in the community. The elder index largely reflects about 200% of the federal poverty level, at least in New York state, it does, which is something that we advocate for, because it’s a lot more realistic than the the guidelines for the programs today, many of them are 100 125% of the federal poverty level, and and, and the federal poverty level, when we think about what it really means, they the way they come up with and I think Nydia could probably say this better than me, but the when you talk about the federal poverty level, what you’re assuming is that people are everybody’s healthy. You know, everybody has the same health conditions, that everybody uses 1/3 of their income to eat for food, right? And that no matter where you live in this country, the cost of living is the same. And that is the big myth that this elder Economic Security Index dispels, and that is basically the, in a nutshell, what this is we are taking, you know, this 100% poverty level and showing that it is completely inadequate. It does not measure reality for a senior or for anybody else, when you take into account today’s cost of living and inflation, yeah,
Dina Refki 17:28
and so are there counties that fear where older people fare worse than others when you when everything else is everything is considered? Are there? What are the counties that are really ranked at the bottom of of elder well being and elder elder’s ability to have economic security?
Nidya Velasco Roldán 17:53
I can give you an example of at the national level, like the for for instance, for single renters living alone, the cost of living independently ranges from $24,000.48 $24,000 in Alabama to a high of $37 in Massachusetts at the state level. And for couples, the highest is in Massachusetts, again, about 51,000 and the lowest in Alabama for 36,000 around 36,000 and also, like we see a lot of of these concentrated in the northeast, we see that in The Northeast, the costs are very, very high in comparison with other regions in the country, but I’m sure Maria can share much more about New York specifically,
Maria Alvarez 18:52
yes, well, New York State is the fourth less livable Community state in the country, the fourth most expensive state in the country to live. So it has the highest, fourth highest index, having said that, when we look inside of New York State, some of the highest the some of the counties with the highest index. Indices are new New York County, Westchester and both Long Island counties, Nassau and Suffolk. Those are some of the highest counties with with the highest and, you know, highest cost of living when you look at lowest count, lowest cost of living, a lot of times on the southern tier of New York, those like Chautauqua and those, those are much less expensive. Now I will say what? While you know you have these numbers, everything is very relative, right? Because. Because I’m mentioning New York’s, you know, New York City, and I’m mentioning, you know, Long Island and Westchester, these are urban concentrations, mostly where people probably made more money. However, the cost of living is higher, but if you go to some of the rural areas, it’s probably also relative, because, you know, you still have to pay your property taxes and you still have have you don’t have as much access to a lot of the resources available. So then, while, if you’re looking at it from a New York City income perspective, that might seem inexpensive, but if you live in those communities and that is where your retirement is drawn from, chances are it’s just as expensive, relatively
Dina Refki 20:52
So, if you’re an elderly person living in New York State, would you Have an advice for an elderly person as to which county they is more aging friendly that would make your whatever funds you have stretch and of course, you know the variability across counties are, is in are incredible. Are there any counties that you would say this is more Age Friendly counties? Obviously, you said Long Island and New York are very expensive, but the people who live there may have higher income so they’re able to to withstand the the cost.
Maria Alvarez 21:42
Yeah, it depends. I mean, not everybody, obviously. And if we look at some of the the ethnic communities, you’ll see that they’re not really affording much and new and also in there is a an issue right now where people who have been considered middle income all their lives and probably have have some good, good resources, are starting to slide into poverty now and into the gap that Nydia was talking about earlier, and not finding affordability because their their resources are not keeping pace with the cost, the inflation and the cost of living. But just to answer your question about where, where it’s best to live, I if somebody were asking me, Where should they go, it all depends on what your needs are, because if you need very you know if you need a good hospital, if you need you know if you are, you know if you need resources around that are available to you. You know an urban setting might be a good place, even if you pay a little bit more for certain things. But if it’s worth it to you, it might be more expensive if you don’t, if you live in a rural area that doesn’t have a hospital because they’ve been closing, you know, to and you need a specialist, and it doesn’t exist in your area, it might be, you know, your quality of life might suffer because you’re not in proximity to those resources. So it really all depends what your needs are, and that goes for even if you wanted to move out of state, you wanted to move to another state. You know, we find sometimes I always, I always, I find people who move to another state, right? They say, Oh yes, it’s less expensive, or my family is there, and that’s why I’m going. And my first question is, do you drive? Because in a lot of these places, you know, if you’re coming from New York City, where, you know, we have fabulous trans, you know, mass transportation, you don’t need a car. And if you don’t drive, you go to a place where you need to drive, there’s a problem, right? Because it’s going to be very difficult to get around. But then, then I and one thing I always tell everybody is, if you are leaving, don’t leave for good, for just yet, keep your apartment or keep your housing here, because if you find that that’s not the place for you, you you have a place to come back to, but once you give up your living situation, let’s say in New York City, it will be very difficult to find that again when you talk about housing. Housing is a huge issue when it comes to seniors. So So again, it just depends, depends on what your needs are and your resources and how you need them met.
Dina Refki 24:45
Yep, I love the angle that you put on it. It’s it’s important to consider all the health issues and the resources needed in the community that you
Maria Alvarez 24:55
care. Yeah, a lot of people come back because their health care is not as. Good or accessible. Accessible, because New York State, we complain a lot about it, but it’s good that we’re advocates, because we were able to keep some of the benefits. It’s not the same in other states. So I’m sorry. Nydia,
Nidya Velasco Roldán 25:13
no, no, it’s fine. I would like to add that, yes, like, it depends on what you need, like, if you want a place where you can walk like that has good work walkability, like you can walk on the streets and go back and forth. You want public transportation or mass transportation, or you want like, all these different things. Yes, like, you should take those into account. But the problem is that the places that have all these things that you want or you need are so expensive that you cannot afford, you know? So it’s putting like it’s very hard for older adults. I imagine putting in the balance. This is what I need, but this is what I can afford, and then like, you have to, like, honestly, you have to move to the place that you can afford and know the to the places that have the resources you need. And that’s when you also build a lot of gap in terms of services and other stuff needed to age with dignity. So, yeah, I think it’s, it’s a very, like, difficult thing to discuss, like, you cannot recommend somewhere like, Oh, this is cheaper move here, because, like, it depends on a lot of things, and also on what, how much you have to afford those advantages?
Maria Alvarez 26:42
Yeah, there’s no one correct answer for everybody,
Dina Refki 26:46
absolutely, absolutely, and that’s the power of the index as well. So you Maria, you mentioned ethnic communities and and certainly your research have found that the index have found that, not only that there are differences among counties, not all counties rank the same or score the same, but also there are differences among groups. And so you found disparities among racial and ethnic groups along gender lines, along nativity status lines. Can you talk? Talk more about that?
Maria Alvarez 27:26
Well, first of all, just as a group of everybody, all seniors in New York State, 800 out of 3.4 million people who are 65 and over right now, 860,000 seniors. Are not making ends meet, meaning that they’re below the federal poverty level, but they’re also in the gap, and adding both of those, that is, I mean, that is close to, that’s a little bit under, you know, 20% of, or 25% of all seniors, right? That’s an enormous amount of numbers. And the problem is, is that this the the population 65 and over is growing. We’re, we’re almost, we’re over 20% of the population in New York state. And so just as as a group, it’s, you know, things are pretty grim. But then when you take it even further right, you drill down into the different ethnic communities. So what we’re seeing is that the the community that the white community is 47% of people, 65 and over in the white community are are living either in the gap or under the federal poverty level. So that’s right under 50% and those that’s that, and that’s the lowest the people that are doing the best in these groups, because then when you look at the black non Hispanic population, 81% of black and non Hispanic elders are not making ends meet, either because they’re in the gap or they live below the the federal poverty level. When we look at the Asian or Pacific Islander non Hispanics, 76% are not living are not making ends meet, Hispanic or Latino, 81% of the Hispanics are not making ends meet. So when? Now, this is a very big problem for a different for a few different reasons. One is that, okay, these are the elders right now. But if this is the trend of younger people in these same communities, if they have these same numbers when they age, they. Those communities are going to be even more in number than what we have right now, which puts our state’s economic infrastructure into a lot more danger. And I’m not and here I’m just talking about the statistics. I’m not getting into their personal stories of what the impact on your daily life is when you have 81% of a community who is not making ends meet?
Dina Refki 30:30
Wow, it’s it’s striking numbers that you shared with us. Where do you think we are failing? Where are current public policies failing to address why is it failing to address these equity gaps, and what would be a more inclusive elder economic policy framework that you suggest, since most of us are really getting there, and we have a demographic cliff where, you know, large segments of the population will be in that age gap in age bracket. What would be an inclusive economic policy framework? What would it look like?
Maria Alvarez 31:14
Well, I mean, there are, there are a number of policies that that we we think should be addressed. Should, should be addressed. First of all, I mean, again, I we always advocate for at least 200% of the federal poverty level so that that would raise the threshold more people would be able to qualify for programs to give you a success story about this index, just two years ago, we were successfully able to advocate to increase the threshold for the Medicare savings program so that more people would be able to qualify. Not only qualify for the program, but then they would have more money in their pockets. So it went from 125% of the federal poverty level to today, which is 180% still not 200% we’re still fighting that, but it’s a huge, I mean, 300,000 more New Yorkers qualified for the program Now, having said that, which means that it puts at least $10,000 in your pocket, and if not more, because when a person does not, you know, does not apply for one program that they qualify for at a federal level, like a heap or snap or or these Medicare programs, these Medicare savings program when, when you don’t apply for it, you’re missing out on three or four other programs that you qualify for, and that represents at least 14 or $15,000 in you know, they’re not handing you the money, but it’s 14 or $15,000 that you don’t have to spend. And if we’re talking about people who are making $29,000 a year, and largely, you know, and that’s on the high side, imagine what 14,000 that’s half of their, half of their income, you know, would would be untouched in out of pocket expenses. So that right, there is one thing Now, having said that we also need to be able to make the communities aware that that these that these programs exist because people are not applying. And I, from my editorial point of view, it doesn’t reflect anybody else here. I think a lot of times it’s not, it’s a concerted effort not to let people know about things, because it just so happens that many times, many of the people who qualify and don’t apply are in communities of color, communities where they don’t get the information, communities that they mistrust. A lot of the the agencies, which is why organizations like ours is so important because we are seen as trusted sources, and so that’s the other thing we you know, we always try to not only get the benefit, but also the dollars to be able to get into the community and inform and educate and and enroll people. Because that’s the other thing, when you don’t enroll, then those those programs go away. That, to me, is the one, one of the big things. Another policy would be in New York. In New York, we have the New York Health Act. Some people call it single payer, which gives access to everybody, no matter who you are, who’s a resident in New York State access to health care, and everybody gets the same health care. And it’s not, you know, there’s a lot of misconceptions out there about what it is, but basically, the state becomes there and and the the all of the our Medicare contract. Contributions and our, you know, things that we contribute to in in our lifetime would go to this program, which would then be able to pay our to pay the doctors, whatever the fees are, right? You have
Dina Refki 35:15
to be 65 plus to qualify for this
Maria Alvarez 35:19
no, this program? Well, no, it’s, it’s still, it’s still an act. So it hasn’t been, yeah, it hasn’t been made a law. But what one of the good things about it is that it for seniors, it also provides dental, it also provides vision, and those are things that and long term care, and those are all things that once people turn 65 they stop going to the dentist, they stop going to the eye doctor, because it’s not covered by by their insurance, or if it’s covered by insurance, it’s very, very minimal. So, but all of those are things that would then people would would benefit from, and long term care is huge. So it would be, you know, it’s a very, very expensive program, and that would be covered by this bill. That would be a huge thing. And of course, we’re always for all of the improvements on, you know, snap on, the nutrition programs, heating programs, all of these programs that are that seem to be at risk in the in, you know, recently and every year, we always have to fight for them. So it’s not just this year, it’s every year. We always fight for them. Two other things, and I’ll give Nydia a chance to speak the the older American. Americans Act, which is the the piece of legislation in the federal government that provides the funding for senior services throughout the throughout the country, it needs, it needs to be reauthorized, meaning that it needs to be increased. The dollars need to be increased because there are more seniors in this country now than you know. The last time it was reauthorized was probably about five or 10 years ago. So when you don’t get an increase and you have more people to serve with the same money, that’s the same as a cut. So we have to do that, and of course, we always advocate for the strengthening and preservation of Social Security and Medicare.
Dina Refki 37:34
Another concern that we heard from the field with seniors is that the move from paper based forms to qualify and submit applications to those programs have moved from paper to digital forms, and Many elderly residents are not really, do not seek technology or digital based forms as age friendly. And so have you seen this prevalent in the field? And did this lead to less and less people submitting to these programs when the requirement was to move from paper based to digital forms of applications before that,
Nidya Velasco Roldán 38:24
I would like to add something to what Maria was sharing about the access to these programs, like even when they were paper based, and in another study I was working on, I we realized, or we detected, that a lot of immigrants, like particularly immigrants, do not use the services because they do not trust even when the services like the first, there’s few information about the requirements needed To access these services. So you assume that because you are an immigrant, you won’t have access to those services, that those are only for maritimes, right? So first it’s that, and there’s no effort to make sure everyone knows everyone is has access to these programs. And the other thing is that there’s a lot of complaints, as you mentioned, about how to apply for these programs. Like they if they go to the office, many times the people who is working there in these programs, they like, they are also they are very stressed. They receive a lot of applications, and they do not have the time or the training to help people who either do not speak good the language, they don’t speak English very good. So the forms are already complicated for English speaker, like if you read one. One of these forms, you are like, What? What like? I don’t even know how to fill out any of those forms there. Those are very complicated forms. So they are not age friendly, even when they were paper based, those are not age friendly. So the second thing is, like, even if they are translated into different languages, if they are not age friendly, you cannot fill them out. And the person, like the human that is there and can help you, they don’t speak the language. They only speak English. So you cannot communicate with this person. You bring your daughter, who is the one speaking English, trying to communicate and like it like it’s a lot of layers of complication on accessing these programs from the immigrants perspective. So I think that on top like, in addition to all the programs that Maria is sharing, I think that we should also train like, provide culturally sensitive training to service providers to explain to them, like these people who is trying to access these services can get very nervous. Can may need, like, an extra support. You need to be more patient with them, like understand these these things, or the risk or this vulnerability that they are experiencing so they can serve them better. So and I think that, like now, changing this to the digital part of it, I think this could be good for many immigrants, because they don’t have to go to the office. They can do it online, so they don’t feel the risk of like being seen there in the office, so I think it may be a good thing for them, but the forms were already complicated. So I don’t know if they are simplified through the digital forms, or they are not like I don’t have knowledge about that, but Maria maybe knows more about it.
Dina Refki 41:56
Yeah, there’s also digital divide, and, you know, on discomfort with using the technology itself. With aging population, people like us, who have not been digital natives and born into this, always have trepidation about using technologies. So you mentioned really good points Nydia that I would like to to build on. So your findings have found clearly that there are gaps, and the gaps are wider for women, for immigrants and across many communities of color because of what you indicated, the intersections of different social identities, whether gender, nativity, status, race, ethnicity, and so I ask both of you, have you in your experiences encountered reports from this population who complain about ageism or discrimination based on aging. Obviously, the research documents these instances and experiences very well and really provides evidence that there really is widespread in many communities. Any thoughts on that,
Nidya Velasco Roldán 43:23
as you very nicely mentioned, the discrimination, the intersectionality, when you put the intersectionality lens on it, you see like layers of layers and layers of discrimination that other that you are an older adult, so you suffer from ageism, and then you’re a woman. So you also suffer another layer of discrimination, and then you are a woman of color, another layer of discrimination, and a woman of color who doesn’t speak the language, another layer of discrimination, a woman like and so on and on and on. So you like, have all these different like levels of vulnerability that you are exposed to and like for many the like daily live their life like that, you know, like they just keep accumulating inequality. Through their life course. So when they reach other age, they already are in a position of vulnerability very, very high. So yes, there’s a lot of things we can do for helping people in this age, but I think we need to think like put the intersectionality lens, but also the light course perspective lens. So we should make sure that people, like all people, have access to different things and different programs so they can build wealth. They can build a. They can make sure they their health is good as they age. They can build wealth. They can they can work on all these things through the life course. So they inequality or the gap is not as big when they reach old age, you know. So, yeah, that’s what I wanted to share.
Dina Refki 45:23
Maria, any thoughts on ageism affecting the older population? Have you heard Do you Is it a topic that is being discussed in your circles?
Maria Alvarez 45:34
Oh, yes, ageism is something that we actually talk about. It a lot of different ways. One of them is in terms of patients rights and people’s health care. It’s when you go to a doctor. You know, we hear horror stories about how, you know, how medical staff, you know, I always think that people should be trained to to deal with geriatrics. And in this country, we have a big problem that of a lack of geriatricians and people joining the fields that that that serve older people. And the reason for that is because it’s not as sexy. It’s doesn’t pay well, you know, all of those things. But when we consider that the 65 and over generation is the population that uses health care the most and the most expensive health care, also, I really think that people should be, people should be beating down the path to see how I can serve an old, an elderly person the most, especially with our growing population, we hear how people will say, you know, like, doctor. Doctors will say things like, well, you’re old. What do you expect? You know, they are. They’re denied services. They’re not sometimes, if you go with a family member, they’ll, they’ll address the person that you’re coming with, instead of they’re addressing you. You know, so all of that, and we, we, we have. We do seminars and and presentations teaching people what their rights are and how not to be treated that way, and how to assert themselves and how to empower themselves. I think one of the things is that people need to be empowered to advocate for themselves and to you know and for others as well, but to and not to be intimidated sometimes when we’re dealing with, with, with populations that are either immigrant or, you know, from other cultures, basically, or, or just because they’re not as confident, they will, they will not challenge, let’s say they won’t challenge somebody who is treating them for something, because they feel, Oh, that person knows everything. And if, and if they’re intimidated, they they may not assert themselves. So, so that type of of ageism is something but then also, when we talk about working, you know, at in the in the workforce, we find discrimination, age discrimination. And I have to tell you one thing about older workers is that they are so much more conscientious. They have institutional knowledge, usually. And you know, if they’re not, if they’re not capable with technology, they have other ways of compensating for it, and they can teach younger generations who are, who are. You know, capable with the technology, but one thing that you could never, ever, ever replace is experience, which is what our population, our our members, have in spades, right? You you can’t. There’s no salt substitute for experience. You can’t. You have to live it in order to be able to get it. And that experience provides such a a perspective that because they’ve already lived through many similar situations from before, and they’ve come out at the other end, and if you’re 6070, 8090, years old, it’s because you have you, you’ve been able to overcome many of the things that have happened, and I think in society, that is something that is being overlooked.
Dina Refki 49:53
And certainly, you know, being denied employment opportunities when you’re older, we’ve seen that so. Prevalent in many, many spaces because of stereotypes about older population.
Maria Alvarez 50:07
Yeah, and also, I have to say something about that too, because, yes, you’re being denied because of, you know, your age and skills. But also the way things are set up many times are not conducive for an older person. So many times, you know, oh, we have to do a report, you know, because it’s on the platform. They have all of these things that are these days, yes, and that’s the way to do it. Many times, if you don’t have those skills, you will not qualify for the job, you know. So, I think it’s adult, you know, it’s, it’s like, sort of like a catch 22 and that that has to be addressed. Because, like I said, older workers have a whole lot more a lot of experience than things to give. And the reality, when we talk about this index, older workers need to work because they can’t afford not to. So, that something has to give in that area. That’s what I
Nidya Velasco Roldán 51:04
wanted to say, that they do need to work, because, as you see, there’s a gap they need to cover that. They need to earn that income so they can cover their basic needs. But they are trying to apply for jobs, and they are not getting those jobs, so it makes it even harder to compensate for the lack of income to cover basic needs. So yeah, yeah, I wanted to
Dina Refki 51:34
afford not to work, and no one is hiring them because of their age. It’s, it’s, it’s really terrible situation. Um, we are out of time. So I’d like to thank you Maria veraz and Dr nedia Alaska world and for giving us the Economic Security Index. Certainly economic security in later night life is not evenly distributed. You’ve shown us that the that index can help us see the gaps by place, by housing status, by health, and points us to the policy issues that can close them, the policy solutions that can close these gaps. And we heard that these gaps are wider for certain population, like women, like immigrants and across communities of color, and also the older segments of the population. And behind every number is a neighbor, a grandparent, a caregiver who wants to stay rooted in their community and and really the elder index reminds us that dignity has a price tag, and that price changes, block by block, county by county. Thank you so much for your wonderful, powerful work. Please continue to do the great things that you do, advocating generating knowledge that can really illuminate this, these vulnerabilities that everybody is going to be facing as they get older. Thank you for naming the issues and the solutions. We wish you the best in your policy advocacy and your research efforts as you move forward this work and in our program notes, you’ll find resources to bring the index into your planning, your budget, work and your advocacy, and if this conversation resonates, subscribe, review and share policy outsider so more leaders can act on the data. Thank you all so much for joining us today.
Maria Alvarez 53:35
Thank you. Thank you so much. You
Joel Tirado 53:44
thanks again to Maria Alvarez, Nydia Velasco, Rodin and Dina refke For delving into the workings of the elder Economic Security Index and how it can be used to inform policy for older adults. Thanks also to Guillermo Martinez, Deputy Director and intergovernmental liaison at the Institute on immigrant integration research and policy for his help with this episode. If you liked this episode, please rate, subscribe and share it will help others find the podcast and help us deliver the latest in Public Policy Research. All of our episodes are available for free wherever you stream your podcasts and transcripts are available on our website. I’m Joel tirado until next time, policy outsider is presented by the Rockefeller Institute of Government, the public policy research arm of the State University of New York, the Institute conducts cutting edge, nonpartisan public policy research and analysis to inform lasting solutions to the challenges facing New York state and the nation. Learn more at Rock inst.org or by following Rockefeller inst. That’s I N, S T on social media. Have a question, comment or idea, email us at [email protected]
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